Did you know much about the climbing in Sedona when you first moved to Arizona fifteen years ago? And has it changed much since then? I never see anyone down there. There still a lot new-routin’ to be done.

When I first got here, everyone was like, climbing in Sedona! Don’t go down there—it’s scary. Nobody climbs down there. It’s mostly because you can thank Tim Toule, his book was titled A Better Way to Die. It was the first guide book.

And has it changed much since then?

I never see anyone down there. There still a lot new-routin’ to be done.